PLA Female Lieutenant Colonel Sympathetic to June 4th Movement; Criticizes Corruption
A female Lieutenant Colonel in the Chinese People's Liberation Army called Jill and revealed her sympathy to the student movement on Tiananmen Square in 1989. The movement was squashed by the PLA. In this call, she said she would never open fire at her own people and it scares her just to think about what happened on the Square in 1989.
Voices of the People (1/25/00)
Caller: Hello.
Jill Ku (Gu Jirou, GJ): Hello. What is your family name?
Caller: Liu.
GJ: Ms. Liu, right?
Caller: I am also a soldier. The person who just talked to you was my husband.
GJ: So both of you are serving the country. You are then a Hua Mulan [heroine in Chinese history]. Can you tell us about your life in the army?
Caller: I have been in the army for more than ten years now. I feel that today’s Chinese soldiers are not like the soldiers in the old days during the civil war time period.
GJ: Why?
Caller: The Eighth Route Army (led by the CCP during the anti-Japanese War) had very strict discipline. I don’t know whether you have heard the song called “the Three Main Rules of Discipline and the Eight Points for Attention of the PLA” or have seen soldiers in many different TV shows and movies…
GJ: It is difficult to say that there was ever a real person like that since they are TV characters, most likely they don’t really exist. Nevertheless, you feel that today’s soldiers do not follow strict discipline and don’t put people’s interest first, is this right?
Caller: That is right.
GJ: How did this happen?
Caller: This is probably caused by the overall social morale, or its corruption and darkness, which is the same in the army.
GJ: Since you are also in the army, can you tell us about your thoughts about some of the things that had happened inside the army? What are the causes for the lack of discipline and corruption in the army?
Caller: The discipline is still strict for soldiers. An old Chinese saying “if the upper beam is not straight, the lower ones will go aslant” explains the situation.
GJ: Who is the upper beam—the central government or the high level military officials?
Caller: I would say that it starts from Jiang Zemin.
GJ: No one, including Jiang Zemin, is good.
Caller: They are all corrupted.
GJ: Will this cause you any trouble to speak words like this as a servicewoman?
Caller: I can only say that the corruption in China is really like this, or in other words, it is corrupted to the extreme.
GJ: Well, what kind of changes do you want to see as a servicewoman?
Caller: I am different from my husband. I heard him saying that if there was another June 4th movement, he would still have to go [if the government sent him]. But for me, being a servicewoman, I no longer have a high expectation for anything. If that happens again, I would just tell them that I don’t want to go.
GJ: You’d rather resist the order?
Caller: If there is such an order, using another old Chinese saying, I will “dawdle over my work.”
GJ: So if there is a wrong policy, you would rather not to follow the instruction.
Caller: No, I will not go. Or if I have to go, I would either shoot at the sky or not open fire at all.
GJ: So you will not open fire on the students.
Caller: Definitely not. Even though I am in the army now, I majored in literature in college and am a sentimental person. I would never open fire on my classmates, my brothers and sisters.
GJ: Why do you think that your boss could give out such an order, especially in 1989, and still deny that they killed people?
Caller: I was a student in 1989 and participated in the student movement then.
GJ: How do you feel now?
Caller: I really don’t dare to think too carefully about it.
GJ: Can you talk about it with others?
Caller: No. It scares me when I just think about it.
GJ: Why?
Caller: I was a college student then. In a sense, we participated in the student movement also. The student movement in Beijing was more organized. I went to college in Xian. At the time, many Xian college students wanted to go to Beijing and support the student movement there. We were sent back half way on our way to Beijing. So we were unable to go. The reason we were sent back was that Beijing was already under marshal law.
GJ: If you had gone to Beijing, you would have suffered some consequences today.
Caller: Probably I would be dead already.
GJ: So, you supported some of the students’ thoughts then, right?
Caller: Yes, I do support them because they didn’t have any evil intentions. Since the New Cultural Movement in 1919, Chinese students have always stood at the front line of the revolution. They advocated freedom, democracy and science. That was what they wanted that time as well.
GJ; Do you dare to share those thoughts with others in the army?
Caller: Yes. I am very brave. I majored in literature.
GJ: You also talked about the Falun Gong. Can you go into a little more detail? How should the Chinese government treat the Falun Gong issue, in your opinion?
Caller: In my own opinion, Li Hongzhi’s Falun Gong is a faith. Let’s not assess the right or wrongness of this faith. But being a human being, he should have the freedom in what he wants to believe.
GJ: So you don’t think the Chinese government should use such a strong suppression against the Falun Gong.
Caller: There should be freedom. For those who died when practicing the Falun Gong, I think, it was because their desires were too strong. They wanted to become a Buddha or God too much; of course they went to the wrong trap. If someone just wants to use it as a way or tool to stay healthy, it should be safe.
GJ: You said that you practiced the Falun Gong, right?
Caller: Yes.
GJ: Do you still practice now?
Caller: Even when I was practicing, I only practiced it sometimes.
GJ: And now it is even more inconvenient. You also expressed unsatisfactory feeling toward the government’s suppression of dissidents. You said that most Chinese hoped to have multi party system in China, right?
Caller: That is right.
GL: What do people in the army think?
Caller: The same. Many people in the army also want to see a multi party system. Now we are all new style soldiers who have mastered certain knowledge and desire to have democracy and freedom. They are no longer the old style soldiers. There are certain benefits if we have democracy and freedom. It is also good for China’s future. If there is no reform and we continue to move on this old track, we will run into a dead end surely. If we have a multi party system and competitions among different parties, like the U.S., they will help to do a better job in managing China. In turn, China will have a better future.
GJ: What do you think about the suppression of dissidents?
Caller: We think that the CCP is really uncivilized in the way it handled them.
GJ: Uncivilized? This is a rather strong word.
Caller: Yes, uncivilized. I think that people should have the freedom to think. If the CCP doesn’t agree with a multi party system, we can have a discussion about this. Why do you put them in jail?
GJ: How many people in the army share your thoughts?
Caller: Most of them. We have suffered enough under the dictatorial government.
GJ: So you also hope to end this dictatorial government soon, right?
Caller: [I hope the system] die soon.
GJ: What do you think about the CCP?
Caller: I would not say that I wish it to disappear, but I do hope to see a multi party system in China. The CCP can still be around.
GJ: Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, especially as you take some risk to talk with us. I am very happy to have the opportunity to talk with you, Lieutenant. You actually have a pretty high position. You said that many people are listening to RFA, right?
Caller: We want to listen.
GJ: Can you briefly tell us what you think about our broadcast?
Caller: From what I have heard, I think that RFA reports are fairly objective. When you report about things that happened in China, your report is relatively fair.
GJ: Thank you very much. When you have a break next time, please call us. Bye.
Source: Radio Free Asia