A PLA OFFICER'S CONFESSION
Chinese PLA Soldier Yang Reveals How He Carried Out His Mission at Tiananmen
Recorded, June 3, 1999 EST
Broadcast, June 4, 1999 EST
Different Voices:
JK: Listeners, welcome to Different Voices. I am Jill Ku. What is the real story of the 1989 June 4th incident? In past programs we interviewed students who participated and also reported the official Chinese position. Today, let's hear what a People's Liberation Army soldier has to say. Different Voices interviewed Mr. Yang, a PLA soldier who carried out secret arrest activities in Tiananmen in 1989. He will take you back again in front of the tanks and machine guns in Tiananmen Square. Back then, how did the PLA detain people, how did they kill people? How did the soldiers feel as they cracked down on the students? After the slaughter at Tiananmen, Soldier Yang never dared to discuss this experience with anybody. Today we will unearth the secrets he has hidden in his heart for all these years. Now, stayed tuned to hear the "different voice" of a former PLA acting company commander, Soldier Yang.
Y: On June 4th, I was there myself and took part in the incident. It wasn't our People's Liberation Army soldiers who did something wrong. It was the leadership of the People's liberation army that made mistakes. We had absolutely no choice. At that time, we carried out special operations. We didn't directly participate in the crackdown on the students. We were in Tiananmen.
JK: Okay, could you describe a little bit about the situation then? Just now you said that it wasn't the PLA soldiers' fault; it was the fault of the PLA leadership.
Y: At the time, we saw the students sitting quietly, they were showing their strength through a hunger strike. We asked the leaders to look at this and said, “you look at their ability to resist—What can they [the students] do? They're just sitting there, what do we need to come here for?” You know what the leaders said? They said, “It does not matter whether it is necessary or not. Do whatever I tell you to do.” At the time, many people said, in that case, we really feel sorry for those students. We all are Chinese. The leadership just didn't care about these things. They just use military discipline to force you. "You are a soldier. Carrying out orders is a soldier's fate. And you have to do it." So, from 1989 to today, I've already been retired [from the military] many years, but every time I think back on this, I don't feel at peace psychologically.
JK: At the time, under orders from your superiors, what kinds of activities did you carry out that made you feel so uneasy?
Y: Mostly we were – we weren't doing a large-scale crackdown, that kind of thing—mostly we were, after the leaders determined the goal, we were secretly arresting people ...
JK: Secretly detaining what kind ...
Y: ... and sending them to Black River Farm [a prison camp in Helongjiang Province].
JK: Black River Farm. So, how many people did you secretly arrest?
Y: In all, our special sub-unit secretly detained 22 people.
JK: Twenty-two people. Those people, were they all on the black list or were there also people not on the list?
Y: We never saw any list. At the time, we were in plain clothes and we did the job from a car. And the leaders used walkie-talkies to tell us: “Get out of the car now. Walk east, walk west, so many meters, there is a person wearing such-and-such clothes.” That was the way [it was]. Our job was to get them and arrest them and then turn them over to another department to handle. Later, I heard all of them were sent to Black River [Labor Farm].
JK: What kind of treatment did they receive, do you know?
Y: Their treatment definitely wasn't so great.
JK: Were they detained for a long time?
Y: I think they probably were. This wasn't a long-term issue. It's possible that for the rest of their lives they will never again breathe fresh air.
JK: In prison for the rest of their lives.
Y: It's probably that way.
JK: At the time, what people did you arrest? What kind of role did they play in the Tiananmen activities? Why would they receive such harsh punishment?
Y: We didn't have any idea what kind of role they played. We had no way of knowing. We weren't allowed to open the curtains on the windows. We all just sat in the car listening to the orders on the walkie-talkie and after receiving orders, we got out of the car. And we went in the direction we were told and when we got there and saw the clothes on those people matched the descriptions given to us from our superiors' intelligence, we just grabbed them.
JK: So, you had absolutely no idea what these people had done.
Y: We didn't know at all what the people had done. At the time the order was: “If you meet with resistance, kill without discussion.”
JK: “Kill without discussion?” So, did you meet with any resistance? Did you really do this?
Y: No. At the time, only a few people said, "What are you doing?" And we simply didn't answer them. I also had no way to answer. We didn’t want what we were doing either.
JK: So, do you know, of the people who were carrying out this job with you, were there any people who heard that order and really did it [i.e. killed people].
Y: It seems that there were in the Fourth Central Special Unit. I heard that Fourth Central Special Unit carried out a beautiful job that day. They shot a target at a distance of more than 150 meters.
JK: They shot the person down with only one bullet.
Y: Right.
JK: In their eyes, this was a very beautiful job?
Y: I don't understand why they felt that way at the time. Anyway, after I heard, I felt very uncomfortable.
JK: If you had to do this job [i.e. shoot someone], how would you feel?
Y: My feelings? From an emotional perspective, as a human being, this kind of job is impossible to do. But, from the perspective of a soldier's duty, I would have to do it. I couldn’t have even the slightest hesitation. I saw those female students, they really were just skin and bones from hunger. When I pulled them into the car, they already couldn't walk because of hunger. When they got in the car, one of them said to us: “Right now you don't know what we're doing this for. You'll certainly understand later.”
JK: What did you think at the time?
Y: I didn’t feel very comfortable, but no one would dare to release her.
JK: How was this student dealt with in the end?
Y: We took her to a different department. We didn’t even see clearly who took them over.
JK: In other words, the way you were carrying out your job at the time was as if you were inside a black cage. They would let you out, and you would grab whoever they told you to grab. You really had no choice.
Y: We joked around and called ourselves the Central Intelligence Agency. We worked just like the American CIA. That is what our leaders told us.
JK: Please excuse my rudeness. You were more like a mad dog. Trapped inside a cage, released only to catch people. Do you feel this way?
Y: Ah [sighing]. It wasn’t done by my will. Being a soldier—who could have known I would encounter something like this? Nothing could be done about it. All these years, I’ve never dared speak about it.
JK: Who wouldn’t you dare tell about it?
Y: I wouldn’t tell anybody that I was at Tiananmen around June 4th, doing those things. I certainly wouldn’t dare to talk about it. The files of the four special units that were assigned to the mission were all re-written.
JK: What do you mean by “re-written?”
Y: That means our special unit number, our duties, were all changed in the records, so that we aren’t connected to that incident.
JK: So in your file there is no record whatsoever of that work.
Y: None at all! The notation in the file states that on June 4th I was doing training in Qinghai [Province]. That’s what the file says.
JK: But you were actually at Tiananmen Square.
Y: Right.
JK: Why has the government done this? For what purpose has the People’s Liberation Army changed your whole file?
Y: At the time they said it was because there were many extremists in China. They’re called “Extremists.” They were afraid they would try to seek revenge after they get out of jail. They were also afraid that foreign spies would come ask us for information. That’s why they said they re-wrote our files.
JK: Were these orders commonly carried out? Were they applicable to everybody that at the time?
Y: No. It was just those of us in the four special units.
JK: Were there only those four special units who went undercover secretly detaining people at Tiananmen Square?
Y: I think so.
JK: The rest were all uniformed People’s Liberation Army soldiers?
Y: Yes. There were also some not in uniform, but you could tell they were soldiers. They weren't wearing uniforms, they were wearing quilted jackets, windbreakers, and such. In the summer heat, June 4th, wearing quilted jackets. What do you think was inside those quilted jackets? Machine guns!
JK: Machine guns hidden inside their quilted jackets?
Y: That’s right. Hidden under quilted jackets, windbreakers—the long kinds.
JK: How many People’s Liberation Army soldiers would you estimate were on Tiananmen Square that night?
Y: You mean when the military force was at its greatest?
JK: Yes.
Y: I would estimate there must have been about two fully equipped regiments.
JK: These were all armed, carrying machine guns, driving tanks onto the Square.
Y: I think so. From my vantage point, I’d say there were about that many people.
JK: For all these years, we’ve often heard the opinions of those in China—especially the younger generation—who just don’t believe that people died on June 4th. They don’t believe there was suppression. So as a brother who was assigned to the mission there, could you tell me, how many students might have been killed?
Y: I can't make a concrete estimate, but what I myself saw was not less than 20 or 30 people.
JK: Not less than 20 or 30. And this was just around you, what you saw with your two eyes.
Y: From our perspective, we were at the southern corner of Tiananmen. Our four corners... East, West, South, North.
JK: So, from your corner, you could already see there were 20 or 30 people.
Y: Right. At the time, because we were wearing street clothes, we didn’t have much protection. We needed to wait in the car and couldn't get out. A military policeman carrying a gun came over and knocked on our car door and made us open the door. They didn't leave until we took out our identification to show them. It was very dangerous then. If I hadn't had my ID, I don't know what would have happened to me.
JK: What do you think might have happened?
Y: Maybe today I wouldn't be here talking.
JK: So, the atmosphere that day was that tense. If you were any ordinary person, they would have done something to you.
Y: We immediately showed them our IDs. After they saw them, they said “you should be careful and look out for your safety.”
JK: A little earlier you said that in the past 10 years you absolutely haven't dared to tell anyone about your experience.
Y: I definitely didn't dare. I can only talk on the telephone to you.
JK: So today is your first time talking about this experience?
Y: Right.
JK: We are very moved to be able to hear your confession.
Y: The Chinese government relied on guns to establish its position. Students don’t have guns. No matter how it is, there’s no use. From the past to the present, in the land of China, as long as you don’t have a gun, you can't do anything. I understand it well. I would like to give people a piece of my advice: No matter how upset and angry you are, please do not do such foolish things again. Really! We’re only unimportant commoners. We cannot change the country.
JK: Even unimportant commoners have their own opinions. They also wish to watch out for their rights. What channel should they use to deliver their messages?
Y: Ah [Sighing.] In my opinion, expressing and not expressing haven’t made much difference for the past 10 years. How is China today? Whatever opinion you have you hold it back. You tell your opinion to yourself. Under one-party rule, there’s no use doing anything. You think there’s no human rights? So what? Don’t we still have to live?
JK: But there are many people out there who wish the society and the country would improve or try to improve.
Y: Right. [Our] country needs improvement. But, the Chinese government has a whole system of controlling every nut and bolt. There is no hole they cannot penetrate. They control it very well. There’s no way.
JK: But isn’t the central government also saying that [the country] should promote democracy, improvement and modernization?
Y: That’s only for our foreign friends.
JK: You don’t think they really have the heart to walk on that path?
Y: No. Absolutely not. In terms of economic reform, [the government wants to] get rid of its economic burden. They want to be like America. They want to chase after [prosperity]. Laying off workers, transferring workers to different sectors—it all sounds very glorious. But looking at it practically, you’ll find that [today] is no different from the ’50s and the ’60s. Where are human rights? Where’s democracy?
JK: Mr. Yang, what expectations did you have when you joined the army many years ago?
Y: Back then, I thought I loved my country. There’s a Chinese saying: “Good men don’t serve in the army. Good iron doesn’t get turned into nails.” I didn’t think so. I thought it was glorious to devote myself to the defense of our country. I thought the least I could do was to defend my elderly and brothers and sisters when other countries invade us. That’s what I had in mind when I joined the army.
JK: How long did you serve in the army?
Y: I served for eight years.
JK: From what year to what year?
Y: 1988 to 1996.
JK: In other words, you had just joined the army for not too long in 1989.
Y: At the time, it only had been a little longer than a year.
JK: You were assigned to such a duty after only joining the army a little more than year earlier.
Y: Right.
JK: After what happened, were you ever assigned to any mission that made you feel glorious or made you feel that it had been worthwhile to join the army?
Y: I participated in disaster-relief twice. Nothing else. They were not that serious either.
JK: In general, how do you feel about your eight years of army life?
Y: The Chinese army is too corrupt! This kind of army can never go to battle. Military officials nowadays only act properly when they’re assigned to disaster relief. If they’re not on duty to help relieve disasters, common people hide when they see military vehicles; they yield when they see military officials walking by. The reputation of the military is really that bad. [Low ranked personnel] ask others to stand on duty for them. They, themselves, change out of the uniform and go to the clubs and karaoke bars, looking for women. [High ranked] officials [are always] taking care of their personal stuff. China is really strange nowadays. For example, if people want to open a factory or an entertainment center, they should go to the business office or the culture office to ask for a license. But they don’t. They go to the military personnel. They can give you a license. Nowadays, the Chinese military is divine.
JK: When you say “divine,” it must be within the quotation marks.
Y: Ah [sighing]. It must be used with quotation marks. They have so much power.
JK: … Outside of the legal limit.
Y: That’s for sure. What are the duties of the military? Its duty is to protect the country. In terms of the local governments’ behavior, they really don’t have the power to interfere. However, nowadays, the military is involved in every aspect.
JK: Within the eight years of your military life, you were assigned to be part of the Tiananmen suppression in 1989. Can you please describe how you feel about participating in such a mission in the context of your eight years of military life?
Y: I regret it very much. I can only say I regret it. I can look inside myself and say that although I was there to carry out my assignment, to arrest people, I never had any innocent blood on my hands. At least that was something that I don’t feel guilty about. However, I feel very sorry that I had that kind of assignment. I never thought the government would do things that way. Tanks, earthmovers, and flame throwers were all used there. We were the real “Liberation Uncles.” Ever since I was young, I had always felt glorious wearing a military uniform. After that incident, I felt inferior.
JK: You wouldn’t even dare to tell people that you were at Tiananmen Square:
Y: I wouldn’t even dare to tell my wife.
JK: Really? Even your wife doesn’t know?
Y: Right. Before we got transferred, the officers of each special unit commanded that no one was allowed to identify himself as having been at Tiananmen Square. [They said] we should let it rot in our minds and bring it to our coffins with us. We were not even allowed to tell our parents, children and wives. If your wife asked you what you were doing during the 1989 movement, you would tell that you were doing special training in Qinghai.
JK: Were you married to your wife at the time?
Y: No. I was still very young at the time. I was only 19.
JK: You hadn’t met your current wife back then?
Y: No. I didn’t know her yet.
JK: So you’ve hid it away from her.
Y: She gets curious whenever she hears the radio mentioning it. I get really annoyed when she asks me. I always tell her I don’t know and I was in Qinghai. I’d say nothing happened in Qinghai.
JK: Facing this kind of struggle everyday, don’t you ever feel like spitting it all out to her?
Y: There’s no way that I could tell her.
JK: Why not?
Y: Knowing her—it would be really hard to explain it to her. She would not believe that someone she loves did that kind of stuff in the past. It would be hard to explain it. She wouldn’t believe me. She would assume that I did this and that at Tiananmen Square.
JK: Obviously it is a big obstacle in your mind. You can’t even tell your wife.
Y: I can’t tell [her]. I really can’t tell [her]. It makes me feel really bad holding it in my heart.
JK: So you don’t think your wife would forgive you? You don’t think the person who loves you the most would forgive this part of your past?
Y: She probably wouldn’t blame me that much. At least I didn’t kill anybody. I think she would forgive me. However I’m still worried about women’s big mouths. It wouldn’t be good if this kind of information slipped out.
JK: So even though you’re retired from the military now, you’re still restricted by the “no say” rule.
Y: Retired not retired are really the same because we’ve always lived under surveillance. If you participated in that mission, you’re under surveillance.
JK: Do you think you’re being watched now?
Y: It’s not that “I think” I’m being watched. We have regular meetings talking about “what we have been thinking, what we have been doing, old soldiers make any mistakes.”
We have to report everything.
JK: Oh, is that so? How often to you go to these meetings?
Y: Usually it’s every three months.
JK: You have to report to them every three months?
Y: After three months, the local military supplies department notified you to go. I went and everyone had a tea and discussion meeting. It was called a tea and discussion meeting, but actually they called us there to give us a warning, to let us know that the Communist Party still was OK and had not forgotten about us. They told us as much. Switching special units made no difference. In the army it was even more strict: [they had meetings] once a month. Later, we started to be divided up into separate military units. The military branches changed and the special unit changed. Then, we generally all were promoted two steps. The worst were promoted one step.
JK: So, you yourself were promoted too?
Y: I was promoted two steps. They broke a rule and promoted me. At the time, I was a soldier. After it was over, I was promoted directly to company commander.
JK: In other words, you benefited and were promoted two steps for this job.
Y: [snickered]
JK: But that gives you conflicted feelings.
Y: You couldn't say, "I would not be promoted." Even if you beat me, I wouldn't dare to say that. The Center decided on this, it had the special approval of the Central Military Committee. They give you [the opportunity] to be promoted by doing something wrong and promoted you two steps. All you could say then was “thank you” to the Central Party, “thank you” to the Central Military Committee. What else can you say? You can't say, “I would not be promoted.”
JK: But how did you feel inside? Were you happy?
Y: I'd rather they let me drop out of the army and leave it at that. I was afraid. People have a saying about the big incidents in China every 10 years. So, that's 1989 to today, 1999.
JK: You just said you were afraid. What are you afraid of?
Y: I'm just afraid that something similar will happen again. I don't know how those young soldiers, those young soldiers who now are taking orders in the special unit, would handle it ... [Would they] listen to the slogans from the Party Center? Or [would they] turn the guns around? I don't know the answer to that question, because at the time there were some people in the army who revealed privately that they were thinking this way. They said [they wanted] to seize the opportunity and turn the guns around.
JK: There really were people thinking that way?
Y: Since no one seconded, no one dared. What can you do if you're a few soldiers, 10 or 20 guns; 10 people, what's the use? And at that time, you said it and then forgot about it. You weren't allowed to bring it up again. You weren't allowed to think about it again. So, forget it. I don't know about the young soldiers who are taking orders now, what they think. If there's another incident—obviously we hope we don't run into this kind of situation. China is at a point where it can't go through this turmoil again. To go through this kind of turmoil once is as much as we can take. If it happened again, we'll be simply hopeless.
JK: So you've decided that 10 years ago, this movement brought turmoil to the nation. Wasn't there anything good [that came out of it]?
Y: At the time things were stirred up so people were alarmed and anxious. Perhaps people from every walk of life were affected. My feeling is that, except for in Beijing, more than 10 years after the movement, many people from other places have already forgotten. When it occasionally comes up, it's still like a frightening secret—hide in the house and shut the doors and windows tightly and talk a little. It's just a topic to discuss after dinner or tea. Cruel realities such as stiff competition, layoffs—those kind of things—have made people unable to think about these kinds of things [Tiananmen] again. So, earlier, when I said, even if you think it's not democratic, you still have to live this way. Even if you think there are no human rights, you have to keep on living the same way too. When you see the factory head, you still have to call him “factory head.” There's nothing you can do about it. You see, I now have no way to think about anything more, because, in today's China, what are we facing? Taking care of food and shelter, you can put it this way, we've already gone back to the 1960s. Because China's economy now—don't talk about how we seem to have already stopped the financial crisis—is weak, but actually this kind is a kind ... today all of China, talking about this place, all the products are all in surplus, every tourism industry, everything is a mess in the primary, secondary and tertiary industries. None of them seem to be thriving. Ordinary people take their money. Even the banks have such low interest, I put in inside and I don't move it, what am I afraid of? I'm afraid of catching cold. At the current rates of income for ordinary Chinese, one cold and you spend half a month's salary. And I'm afraid of being laid off, that I won't be able to get my pay tomorrow. Will I drink the Northwestern winds [for nutrition] plus, China controls so tightly.
JK: Would you like to reveal what kind of job you're doing now?
Y: Now, I—to use your American language, I'm a businessman. I sold so many years of my life to the Communist Party and, after all that, if I catch cold, I have to ask the doctor to use the cheaper injections. So, I've figured it out and I decided to make a little money. That's the right thing to do. My goal is very simple: make enough money to take my wife and son to go to Hawaii and sit in the sun. That's my goal.
JK: Are you trying to get away from the psychological burdens??
Y: We just want to be a human being for a few days. When you can still chew things. You don't want to wait until losing all your teeth and still have not lived even a few days as a decent human being. I want to understand a while what it means to be a human being.
JK: You think Chinese are not living as human beings?
Y: Yes, they are human, but the quality of their lives is insufficient. The dignity is a little low.
JK: You have children now?
Y: I have a son.
JK: In the future, if your son asks you what really happened in 1989, what would you say to him?
Y: All I can tell him is that in 1989, all of China was in confusion. "The government was a little dizzy, then the students were a bit ignorant. Your daddy, me, he was confused." I can't say anything except that.
JK: On the anniversary of June 4th, where will you be and what will you do?
Y: I'll still be with my business partner talking business. Because the most compelling issue I face now is that I must run my business well. Then, as soon as I have enough money, I will leave this place. I really can't do anything about anything else.
JK: I'm afraid your heart keeps thinking about that movement 10 years ago.
Y: Ahh, my heart definitely keeps thinking about it. So, tomorrow night I definitely won't go out. I'll just come home alone. And have myself a good sit down.
JK: Mr. Yang, I'm very happy to have talked so much with you today. Although what we've talked about really is extremely painful, we were your first people you told and we are extremely honored.
Y: I also feel happy. I was able to say the words I've held in so long.
JK: After talking, do you feel a little better?
Y: Certainly I feel a little better! But I'd like to take this opportunity and say a few words over your radio to the soldiers serving in China today: We struggling little citizens, ordinary people, have no way of involving the government's behavior and no way of predicting it. Whenever it would happen, it happens. I only hope that today's soldiers, military police and public security police, if you encounter this kind of situation in the future, while you are carrying out your superior's orders, try to do your best not to make yourself feel guilty later,
JK: So, in doing a job, you shouldn't forget to hold on to your conscience, is that right?
Y: Right, right. That's what I was saying.
JK: Ten years have passed. If now you could do something to clear your conscience, what would you most like to do?
Y: Ahh! I'd just like to have some way to contact the families of those students that were taken to and are still at Black River Farm. If I could help them economically! That's all I can do.
JK: That's the only thing you can do.
Y: Ah, I won't talk big and say things that I can't do—something about making contributions to the country, struggling for democracy, struggling for anything. I won't talk about such things. It's no use talking. I've already been ground down to the point where I simply have no sharp edges! All I can say is, if I had a list of the parents of those students, I would certainly help them out economically. I would do as much as I could.
JK: Do you feel that you wronged these people?
Y: I think, I obviously participated and I bear some of the blame. The one who wronged them most was the government. The government won't provide any compensation. So, it's the people who participated who will compensate them. Regardless of the cause or the circumstances, after all I participated.
JK: To date the government has not been willing to take responsibility for this incident, but you want to use your limited personal income to compensate them.
Y: If you think about it, how can the government compensate them? That would mean that, internationally, we would be slapping our own face. Just tell them, “the choice made by our second generation of leaders was wrong. Every action we did at that time was mistaken.” The Chinese government would never talk like that. Since Chiang Kai-shek retreated to Taiwan, whatever the Chinese government does will always be right. Even the Cultural Revolution has more merits than faults! And this time? This was putting down counterrevolutionary chaos. What’s the big deal? In their words, what’s the big deal?
Source: Radio Free Asia